Gold Prospector.
The answer to when dredging will be allowed again in California is simple. It was never disallowed. Personal dredging permits are never going to be allowed again because they were an illegal scheme exposed by the Karuke ( probably spelled wrong) Tribe. The scam, California created a recreational mining class in the 90s under the guise of protecting fish habitat. The scam put the fish and game, now called the state fish and wildlife in charge of this new class of recreation and allowed the fish and game to monetize the recreation which they did by offering personal permits for a person to use a dredge in any allowed waterway in California and only for certain times of the year. This practice by California broke several laws under the mining laws and California's own laws. The Karuke ( again, probably spelled wrong) was not happy with the folks up at Happy Camp, apparently and decided to do something about it. They sued California and won . Why did they win? They won because California did not subject the personal permits to the same standards as a property permit. If a person under a commercial property permit wants to activate a mining site they have to go through several processes. They first have to identify any environmental impacts that mining would cause on the land or water way . Depending on the sites an EIR might be necessary. California law requires this for any commercial activity no matter what the new activity is. Federal laws also require the states to oversee and regulate and enforce mining law . By California allowing people to mine by dredging under a personal permit without going through this process broke not only state laws but also federal laws. The only way California could get away with issuing personal permits to mine/dredge is for them to go through the commercial process on any area they allow the activity. No problem right ? After California lost they put a moratorium on issuing personal permits for recreational mining in California. At least until they could figure out what to do. Once they figured out that California couldn’t afford to go through the commercial process that they require of commercial mining they made the ban of personal permits permanent. This is where we get the moratorium of dredging.
However, dredging is not and has never been illegal in California if you go through the process of becoming a commercial miner and get the proper property permits for your property. It is illegal for California to stand in the way of mining when done properly.
Your property permit/mining rights have not been interfered with.
Just like your drivers license, fishing license or hunting license, the dredging license always could be taken away because it’s a personal permit.
Mining laws and rights are about property rights, not personal rights.
Dredging is still legal in California and the rest of the states .
And this is why the small mining industry really needs to get back to the basics of mining districts and fund education to small scale miners so we know how to stay legal and claim our rights at the table to keep the other entities favorable to mining. Mining districts are a part of mining law and have equal powers under the law equal to fish and wildlife or the water board , but the only way to claim that right back is to utilize it and fill the mining districts with members willing to fund the district.
How do I know this ? My name is Robert Guardiola, and I have been to almost every “dredging “ hearing and have been in personal meetings with several clubs and government officials and several phone and zoom calls with both. If you go to the last Zoom meeting on Californias water board site you will hear my discussion with the water board and their attorneys, you will also hear the California attorney correct the water board chair that I was correct when I layed out the process of legal dredging under commercial property permits.
I did not solve this on my own, it was a collaborative effort of the local mining association I was president of and many other leaders in our community. The person who helped me the most, I don’t think he will mind me giving him credit? Was Kevin Bell , Kevin worked in the water industry for most of his life and definitely knows his way around the water laws and applied his expertise to the mining industry in which he is still active. The other person I would also give Credit to , although the enemy of our cause , is Senator Ben Allen , why Senator Ben Allen , because he let the cat out of the bag which helped me send our team in the right direction to search. It was at the hearing AMRA spearheaded to try to define the definition of a dredge . It was that hearing when I knew that no matter what equipment we used ,California couldn’t issue a personal permit.
I can still see old Ben, looking down on miners from his perch in the prominent seats . And I understood that even he didn’t understand what the law actually was.
I forget who just finished speaking, but he looked down on U.S. miners and said “ Be Careful, otherwise we’ll make you mine under commercial laws “
Right then I knew why they always referred to dredging as recreational!
And I knew that we probably would never get another recreational permit to mine , it is just not cost effective for neither the state or miner to comply with that big of an EIR 🤷♂️
But it is possible to dredge , and they even gave us a map with their 2012 map of where we can easily obtain permits and those areas shouldn’t, by Californias evaluation require an EIR 🤷♂️
P.S.
For property permits you go through the regional water board not the state water board 😉
P.S.-P.S. literally hundreds of people helped us arrive at these facts , to those hundreds, please feel free to chime in, I didn’t mention others as I didn’t get their permission to mention them
What is the correct process to dredge because my friend Tim just came back from his claim and is seeking all information to do so.
Dredging $ucks!!!
So how do we find the correct regional water board for the body of water were in. For instances the bear river is run and operated by the NID. Is that who we would contact. Or in the Georgetown area what local district would we contact. Any input would be greatly appreciated
Sb637 allows the waterboard to issue a NPDES but have stalled it for many years The draft map was a few areas with no gold so a lot of good that would do. www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/npdes/suction_dredge_mining.html
Karuk Tribe, 4800 Members, centered around Happy Camp- I seem to remember that the Tribe asked some dredgers to stop over a weekend that they were holding a ceremony, and the dredgers would not respect that, so the Tribe sued the Fish and Game, and the State banned dredging at some point because it was "deleterious" to the salmon population. At some point they banned dredging and my Keene dredge, and all my Keene equipment sat for 5 years or so before I sold it to someone, and I bought a metal detector and never looked back! They (the State) claimed it was harmful to the salmon's spawning ground, etc. Any dredger knows that fish swim right up to the suction nozzle looking for what might be around to eat- in our area, (Amador County) there hasn't been a salmon in the Mokelumne River since 1965? when they built Lake Camanche Dam, and no fish ladder! See you out in the field with a metal detector, don't think I will ever see dredging come back in my lifetime, at 69! However, keep up the good fight, and thank you for sticking up for miners everywhere, Sir!
IT all sounds like Bs..legalese, you say "personal" how does that affect a legal claim owner? Answer that please, clearly. Not any stupid PLP, BS
Same in Wa. tribes and fish
How about Oregon?
Interesting...
It's not a right if you have to pay someone for the privilege of doing something.
Thank you for your hard work at keeping America informed. I truly appreciate the fight you all have done over the years!
Also, I needed that wake up call to get my butt back in the game. Thank you again.
�If you are NOT aware of the 30 x 30 Initiative or the "Wildlands Project", you should be... 30 x 30 intends to confiscate 30% of the targeted land by 2030 And they are well underway. americanstewards.us/the-wildlands-project-returns/ MICHAEL SHAW on the Wildlands Project www.youtube.com/watch?v=I15FF7WDU3k This is effectively a "Land Grab" operation under the guise of a "Conservation Project". It is "said to be" related to UN Agenda 2030. The most offending goal is that most human access in the "Wildlands" will be prohibited. And what one considers the "Wildlands" makes up over 60% of the country. One must remain in the "Sustainable Cities" to be "safe"! Insurance companies are already cancelling policies therefore making it impossible to build new homes or buy/sell existing homes, unless you have the cash to self-insure... Many roads/trails/campgrounds are being incrementally closed. Eventually they will say it's too unsafe because of "Climate Change". Resources/water/energy etc are not available in the Wildlands because of drought/floods/fires and overburdened power systems. Permits to rebuild will be refused, and entire towns abandoned and the people relocated. There is a growing number of people who consider that many of these fires, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes and other Weather Warfare Operations that are destroying homes and entire cities are being Geoengineered to facilitate this project. "In a DOD news briefing on April 28, 1997 Secretary of Defense William Cohen said "Others” are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves." www.jstor.org/stable/48531830 Once land has been destroyed by natural disaster the Federal Government can deem it is unsafe for habitation and take it by eminent domain. So how else do you think one could achieve this agenda? You know people are not going to willingly leave their lovely home in the "Wildlands" and move to the "Sustainable Cities" to live in Pods... Seems like a diabolical plot to a Sci-Fi Thriller by a Filmmaking 101 course at Community College, doesn't it? Of course nothing is real unless it's on TV! Everything else is "Conspiracy"... open.substack.com/pub/exhibitx/p/the-wildlands-project-a-land-grab?r=4ysajp&utm_campaign=post&utm...
Liberalism is a disease. Less government=more freedom
I'll chime in here. Having done dredging in Mariposa Ca, Merced River, Bear Creek and South Fork. This is in my opinion stupid. Dredging makes holes for the fish to spawn in WTF you think happens when major floods happen and the water is muddy? We can't regulate mother nature> I would agree there should be a size limit on dredges for the hobby miner say 4" or less. I have caught dinner more than once at the end of our dredge it provides food. This scenic water way shit has to stop we have a right to harvest, just like we have a right to fish we also have the right to shoot dinner or am I missing something? These regulations are stupid a lot of our country was founded on gold. Tell me I am wrong?
Start a gravel plant.Funny how gravel plants have gold mining equipment at their facilities.I always said the gravel plant is the business they run to legally extract a lot of gold without having to call themselves a mining operation.
Dredging is the only way to remove lead and heavy metals like mercury from our water shed. I have a very big problem in NEVADA County. Our water is contaminated. And nothing is being done
There is so many different beliefs of what you can and cannot do especially in California. I blame this both on the states deception on dredging permits and the miners themselves for not staying educated nor supporting those who tried to educate. The small and large miners have all but abandoned their true power in mining and after www2 never restaffed their equal and powerful position in government, Mining Districts. If it weren’t for mining districts most of the western states may not be states . This is a hugely neglected and important part of our mining rights. Mining Districts are the premier authority in mining but if the office isn’t manned then that authority is delegated to the other authorities. And those authorities are not exactly friendly to mining. One of the main barriers that limits these districts are the lack of funds to understand and implement the mining laws and the mining districts authority. Until these districts are funded and professionally manned and managed, mining, especially small scale mining will continue to flounder. So , what can you do and what can’t you do 🤷♂️ as of now the federal law has now adopted California laws that no motorized mining can be done without having either having a NOI , notice of intent or a POO , plan of operation. Period. That being said, it’s all up to the interpretation of the ranger or law enforcement officer or managing authority . Since there is no organized or recognized mining authority ( Mining Districts) you’ll need to rely on either one of two associations that are actively trying to help miners AMRA or PLP . Unfortunately, although both are popular they are not legally recognized as mining authorities. And it seems both are not actively pursuing the benefits of mining districts. There are a few active mining districts in different mining areas and if you have one in your area, you should belong to them and be active in there activities. If you are not a holder of property rights ( you don’t have property either by lease, ownership or permission) then pretty much all you can use by law is non motorize equipment and you should contact the managing authority ( forest service, state parks office or consult the community boards placed at recreational areas ) to see what their allowed practices are . If you are in this category , I highly recommend that you belong to any and all local gold associations in your area that you can afford to belong to . And even if you are a claim owner it’s good to join all the associations. I would recommend that you Belong to the GPAA it’s the largest national gold association and is the one most viewed to see the size and temperament of the small scale miner. The other two that I’ve mentioned are AMRA American Mining Rights Association and PLP Public Lands for the People. Both are pretty active in the larger picture of Mining. All of these mining Associations have some great claims or permission for some great claims and are a fantastic source for understanding what you can or can’t do to stay out of trouble. They are a great source and resource. I know everyone wants to protect their honey 🍯 holes and I don’t blame you, but it is of the upmost importance that you belong to the mining community and I think you can do both. But if the mining community doesn’t pull together then your only one vote of Congress away from losing all your mining rights 😉 so if you’re not involved, get involved! And by the way, a huge shout out to Keene Engineering, Pat and Mark and their hard working staff, they have always supported and been involved in the efforts to keep you mining 👍 I know they’re business is selling mining equipment but believe me when I tell you the profitability in California probably is nonexistent for them yet they continue to go over and above in supporting the industry in California and have always, as long as I’ve been around, done so. Thank You for your continued dedication and contributions 😊
Good information 💯. Thank all involved in keeping our God given rights
Thank you
Mr. Guardiola, While I appreciate your participation in public meetings and your interest in California mining law, several statements in your post substantially mischaracterize both the legal basis for California’s suction dredge restrictions and the scope of mining rights under state and federal law. First, California did not “admit” suction dredging was lawful under some hidden commercial loophole. California’s restrictions arose from extensive environmental review, litigation, and legislative action concerning documented impacts to fisheries, water quality, and sensitive habitat. The courts consistently upheld the State’s authority to regulate suction dredging under its police powers and environmental statutes. Second, federal mining law does not create an unrestricted right to use any specific mining method. Mining rights remain subject to reasonable environmental regulation by state and federal agencies. Courts across the western United States have repeatedly affirmed this principle. Third, the suggestion that mining districts possess authority “equal” to the State Water Resources Control Board or the Department of Fish and Wildlife is incorrect. Mining districts may serve as private or historical organizational bodies, but they do not possess sovereign regulatory authority over California waters, permitting, CEQA compliance, or enforcement actions. Fourth, obtaining approvals for any mechanized instream mining activity involves far more than simply labeling an operation “commercial.” Depending on the activity and location, requirements may include CEQA review, Clean Water Act compliance, Lake and Streambed Alteration Agreements, Regional Water Board waste discharge requirements, endangered species consultation, and federal land management approvals. Finally, the current legal reality is straightforward: motorized suction dredging remains prohibited in California unless specifically authorized under applicable state and federal law. No court has held otherwise. Public participation is welcome, but the public deserves accurate legal information rather than advocacy presented as settled law.
Kerby Jackson
If you want to see pristine creeks and rivers come visit Victoria Australia where dredging isn't allowed. Some may have forgotten the wasteland the place was when unbridled groundwork was undertaken, all trees felled for building materials and mine supports . The worst damage was done by hydrolic slucing
Why I left Commiefornia and will never go back, even for the gold. There are other places much more tolerable. Good hunting.
We all have to have a little fun with our friends. This is one of my mining buddies; we can call him Dan the Man. This A1 rendition looks cool.
I thought this was pretty cool. It looks like the customer is running a 5" sluice box and added a sump system to it.
In this particular area, it sounds like most of the values are in the fines, and he said this setup is making a big difference in his recovery. You’ll notice he has to run a second pump to power the sluice and feed the large top box.
I always love seeing a good success story, especially when someone takes a setup and fine-tunes it for their ground conditions. Mark
Looks like the payette in Idaho!!
Over unders ftw. Less bs. About the same results! When its setup right
A lot of flow weight on the pontoons but looks like it's riding pretty well.
California dredging update
We have had a lot of people asking us if or when suction dredging will ever be allowed again in California. The honest answer is, we have no idea.
What we do know is that nothing changes unless people get involved. If you care about mining rights, outdoor access, small businesses, and common-sense regulations, then voting matters. Do not just vote yourself — get 10 other people to vote with you.
California has been under one-party control for far too long, and the corruption, waste, and mismanagement are disgusting. Billions of dollars keep disappearing into failed programs, bloated agencies, and political pet projects while small businesses, miners, and working families get buried under more rules and restrictions.
My personal opinion is that Republicans may not be the answer to every problem, but the current Democratic leadership has been the cause of California’s problems. It is time to vote out the left-wing politicians who have destroyed common sense in this state.
If we want dredging, mining, private enterprise, and responsible outdoor recreation to have a future in California, people need to stop complaining from the sidelines and start voting. Mark
Very much agreed same here in Washington. They have destroyed Washington recreation
If you’re a prospector and you vote for democrats, you’re an idiot.
Is the Governor your friend in this?
I have a question: There is a firm who wants to Mine AU from Hot Creek in Bishop. Do they have a chance??
Agreed 👍
So glad i moved away- i cant wait forever lol
Well said!
There are no left wing politicians in power in California. Democrats are centrists, closer to Republicans in mentality than true leftists. Your lack of understanding of our own political system is appalling, especially as a well established business in this field. I will no longer be utilizing or vouching for your brand because of this. Have a good day.
Well said 🫡
There are 62 candidates running for governor. Look at the ones you may be interested in- check out what they have done and what their position is. Vote for the person NOT the party.🧚
Good luck. Hopefully with this next election things will start going the right way.
spot on
We might have to riot the capitol to get are right to dredge back
Keene sucks, always has.
Wrll said but the challenge is to convince a well indoctrinated liberal to vote red, since they out number all other parties by atleast a 2 to 1 margin. The rural areas are predominantly conservative but the big cities are overwhelmingly liberal. Good luck going into the bay area and honestly debate politics without getting mobbed and or injured. IMHO the division is far to great to over come. Until they see for themselves that liberal policies are destructive and full of waste and fraud nothing will change. They have to implode from the inside out. And far to many conservatives are leaving this state. Although some of the destruction and fraud has come to light and swayed some to vote for commonsense its a uphill battle in our once great state. Conservatism is a movement and gaining ground, how much ground is available to gain in this liberal dominated population im more than willing to do my part and debate the question is will the other side. Good luck digging y'all
VOTE FOR A REPUBLICAN GOV. DRILL BABY DRILL ! AN MAYBEE DREDGING WILL FOLLOW !
Very well put Mark
Absolutely, well said. With exception, im 100% behind the red party, not Republicans though ill vote that way, but MAGA 🇺🇲 America first
Wish you the best. Long hill to climb
Get deep in the mountains!!
I agree with you 150%. And we have the same problem here in oregon
Well said! It’s like pulling teeth posting when commenting and feedback is posted. So many want the rights so few want to stand and share the battle
Chad bianco is the man for the job
We love Keene Engineering, Inc.!!
Wow, we have two of the 8" Super Max dredges built and they should be packed up and shipped out quickly.
We’ve built quite a few of these machines over the years, and they just keep getting better. Not to beat a dead horse, but I really do love the green carpet. It looks great, adds traction, and gives these dredges a clean finished look.
Each time we build one of these 8" Super Max dredges, the design and finish get a little cleaner. It’s always good to see these big machines come together and get ready to head out into the field.
I was looking at that sluice yesterday while I was dropping off some parts. That thing is a monster. Your attention to detail is unbelievable. The components are so beefy. The plating looks so good. I appreciate that you guys at Keene Engineering, Inc. treat me so good. Your equipment is the best in the industry. I look forward to seeing you guys in the desert.
🔥🔥🔥
How much longer before we can dredge in California ?
You guys build some cool stuff. I need to work out a recirculation trommel that can do a decent amount of material with you. Your 10 inch is cool but I need that just a bit bigger and with about 900 gallons of recirc. And a sand screw to deal with fine tailings
What are they running price wise?
Where are they heading to?
Both of these dredges are going up to Alaska
The basic price is roughly 40K
I HAVE a great mining product idea i need help producing i see it being very useful and a game changer for cleanups
I’m really eager to see you post a 6 inch supermax. Looking forward to the day I buy an 8 inch
That green comes in blue too
Sweet !
Larry,
We got the super-wide high bankers packed in the crate for Nome, Alaska. The motor and pump are on the smaller pallet.
My guy, Magic Man, did a great job packing everything up. I had to remind him that it doesn’t have to be pretty — it just has to be functional and survive the trip.
I have one more box left to pack, and once that is finished, I can provide the final weights and dimensions. We have to pack the two grizzly classifiers as well. Should be ready to rock tomorrow.
Mark
We are assembling the two 8" dredges now. Unfortunately, we ran out of the gray carpet we normally use on the decks, but due to time constraints, we had to move forward and use our more expensive green ribbed carpet.
The upside is it actually looks great and should provide excellent traction on the deck. The only downside is that it may show a little more dirt over time, but the grip should be outstanding.
Sometimes you improvise, and sometimes the upgrade turns out better than planned.
That carpet lasted 25 seasons. Went gray this year see how it lasts.
Who knows maybe you’ll spot a picker on it. 😁
Nice!
It was really cool seeing those awesome dredges today in your yard. You guys are the best in the industry. Thank you for your help making my projects work, by having everything I need in your awesome inventory.
Install a putting green hey wtf I like it
this is bullshit. my house should have been sold already and I should be back home in alaska with my 8 inch dredge working the grounds with my sons.FUCK THIS WORTHLESS STATE OF OREGON
Green grey. Whatever
Interesting
Works great on the deck of a boat also.
What's a new 8in go for now hopefully we will be buying a new one at end of the year
Hey where can I pick up one of those pink pans! LOL!
I have a 6 inch will sacrifice 4000
8 inches
You folks charge more for plastics than our Coast Guard contract pays for TIG Welded aluminum pontoons. Garbage at an inflated ripoff. Sad to see a name like Keene selling lesser for more.
Since we’re already building the A51 and A52 sluice boxes, I might as well show the rest of the equipment in production. In the background, one of the guys is cutting carpets and matting for the boxes.
Dredge sluices?
Do you guys still have the big comalongs
Ok thanks
Great equipment!
You guys ship direct to New Zealand, stockist here are out of a51,a52 ect
